RaxSki from Austria, the most controversial ski

dr-telemark
204 inlägg
dr-telemark 204 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad dr-telemark (8 år sedan)

TomFromAustria2011 :

1) I appreciate your profesional knowledge, DrTelemark.
I would never dare to explain biomechanichal mechanisms.
My son-in-law has the same profession as you. He is also very sceptical - to ALL kind of alpine skiing, especially skiing on piste.
As far as RaxSki is concerned you should be very honest and say: I HAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH THIS GEAR.

True, and I certainly don't feel the urge to try.

2) "Catching something under the snow" is my profession, DrTelemark. I have a degree in physics and 5 years
experience with RaSki.
Let me explain it shortly: Rax fins cannot work as a hook as their lower edges are nearly parallel to slope.
It means that "submerged hindrance" could never stop or even harass the Rax skier.
Sometimes the ski tail would be kicked up but this torque is absorbed by ski tips dashing on the snow
surface. Skier can continue without eating the snow.

I studied engineering at Chalmers University of Technology for almost 3 years before switching to medicine. I may not have a full degree, but I'm educated enough to say that you're wrong. Since all the Rax skiing is done with the weight back and the fins in the snow it's pretty obvious that they sink into the snow and can catch.
Are you calling the scottish skier a liar? He says that he caught something under the snow with the fins and came to a sudden stop.

If the bottoms of the fins were always parallell to the snow the fins wouldn't fill any function, so why then add them in the first place?
Once again, you seen to have no understanding of basic principles, even in physics.

3) Is anybody saying that the shaped carvers were a good invention ? After all, 100% of your patients got injured while skiing on regular skis like carvers, twin tips or all-mountain.

Did you not read my last post? I already addressed this. It's as stupid as saying that all car accidents happen in cars. WELL OF COURSE THEY DO!
If everybody was on Rax skis, I think we'd see less ACL injuries and more broken necks.

This is well beyond stupid. If you insist on trying to introduce these things on the market I say good luck! Just stop making things up (also called lying). Just stay away from injuries and medical statistics altogether since you have no f-ing idea what you're talking about!!! And may I be so blunt as to recommend a refresher course in physics?

dr-telemark Citera
rabbit
779 inlägg
rabbit 779 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad rabbit (8 år sedan)

Andra kanske har sett det här, själv snubblade jag precis på det.
Det finns folk som, på allvar?, säljer "skidor" som får RAX att framstå som jättelånga:

http://skishorties.com/index.htm

http://s3.postimage.org/7tm5h208e/download.jpg

Equal rights and Justice. Citera
Utter
3104 inlägg
Utter 3104 inlägg 8 år sedan

TomFromAustria2011 :

AdamClaeson :

TomFromAustria2011 :

...

Utter's slope is not that extreme.

Öööööh, is it?!? I do not. Anyone else doing this? If i make an eleven, it´s because the fun of it.

It is not that extreme!
Where is that mountain?

Dear Swedish freeriders,
I am just leaving for Rax-Alpe
and that is why I'll enter your discussion Wednesday night again
Tom

I never said it was extreme, I said it was way steeper than this:
TomFromAustria2011 :

Tompan14 :

I would love to see a movie clip of a Raxskier going down something as steep as those photos.

target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rax video 2011

The last couloir in this clip (the one in the shadow) was about as steep as the photo.
There was a danger of avalanche there. The second skier in this chute used the "the best material - big mountain skis" and "the best technique - jump turns" - and immediately released a small avalanche.

The reason is that "raxing" = riding in the fall line causes nearly constant pressure on the snow surface.
In great contrast to jump turns.

Thus me asking you if it looked like I was doing jump turns.

The line is in Disentis, Switzerland btw.

Ace_DG
900 inlägg
Ace_DG 900 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad Ace_DG (4 år sedan)

-

...mach 2 ...2.1 sorry Scotty Citera
SverigeTomten
2182 inlägg
SverigeTomten 2182 inlägg 8 år sedan

People in here are too closed-minded. I would give 'em a try at least

Hey man! peace man! Citera
SverigeTomten
2182 inlägg
SverigeTomten 2182 inlägg 8 år sedan

Seriously, these people are mean. I wouldn't mind trying this. Give me a week of testing and a month of training and i can make this product look good.

Hey man! peace man! Citera
rabbit
779 inlägg
rabbit 779 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad rabbit (8 år sedan)

SverigeTomten :

Seriously, these people are mean. I wouldn't mind trying this. Give me a week of testing and a month of training and i can make this product look good.

Tomtar och Troll !
Nu har den här tråden allt! lol

Equal rights and Justice. Citera
pedernutti
30 inlägg
pedernutti 30 inlägg 8 år sedan

Det är ju uppenbart att det hela är ett skämt! Sluta snacka med killen, han fattar ju inget ändå...

MnO
2225 inlägg
MnO 2225 inlägg 8 år sedan

Jag är övertygad. Det blir definitivt att raxa upp alla skidor i garderoben ikväll. Här ska det kapas bakom bindningen och skruvas dit fenor. Sladda var igår, luta bakåt och bromsa är idag och i morgon. Det går ju åt mindre valla också, och bara där kommer jag tjäna in nog pengar för att kunna ta en gratis Piggelin på midsommarafton. Dessutom borde man ju kunna få ut två par rax av ett par vanliga twintippade skidor om man kapar dom på mitten. Fantastiskt bra. Snacka om bra deal. Conrad är billigare och bla, bla. Här är det halva priset rakt av!

Mountain_Man
4119 inlägg
Mountain_Man 4119 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad Mountain_Man (8 år sedan)

@MnO
Om jag inte visste att du är tekniker och helt saknar humor skulle jag misstänka att du är ironisk ... men så kan det väl inte vara?

;-) /MM

Går det att missförstå ... så är jag på! Citera
Totemann
205 inlägg
Totemann 205 inlägg 8 år sedan

MnO :

Jag är övertygad. Det blir definitivt att raxa upp alla skidor i garderoben ikväll. Här ska det kapas bakom bindningen och skruvas dit fenor. Sladda var igår, luta bakåt och bromsa är idag och i morgon. Det går ju åt mindre valla också, och bara där kommer jag tjäna in nog pengar för att kunna ta en gratis Piggelin på midsommarafton. Dessutom borde man ju kunna få ut två par rax av ett par vanliga twintippade skidor om man kapar dom på mitten. Fantastiskt bra. Snacka om bra deal. Conrad är billigare och bla, bla. Här är det halva priset rakt av!

Akta dig! Det nämns om ett patent..

Läs 3ggr. skriv svar. läs DET 3ggr klicka sänd! Citera
offline
Online 189 inlägg
offline 189 inlägg 8 år sedan

Jaha!
Det passar vanligtvis bra att håna oss som fortfarande åker telisar för att vårt sätt att åka på inte är daterat och inte optimalt. Men vafan, här kommer Mr Tom, tillbaka från framtiden, med det nya!
Det är bara för alla er ungdomar med slalompjäxor att haka på det här tåget också. lol

rabbit
779 inlägg
rabbit 779 inlägg 8 år sedan

Micro-ski, minst lika bra som RAX
(kanske tom bättre? svårslaget med "one size fits all"...)


Equal rights and Justice. Citera
birdosmatte
33 inlägg
birdosmatte 33 inlägg 8 år sedan

Jag blir inte förvånad om den blir en hit hos britterna;)

TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

rabbit :

Micro-ski, minst lika bra som RAX
(kanske tom bättre? svårslaget med "one size fits all"...)
...

Micro-ski is made of plastic, has no edges and no tail.
If you lean back you will immediately fall backward.
Micro-ski just makes your boots little bit longer.

TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

Ace_DG :

...
Leaning backwards for speed control? ...

Well, it is a misunderstanding.

Lifting ski tips / putting pressure on rear fins lets you turn very quickly on any surface.
So fins are good for DIRECTION CONTROL, not for speed control.

TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

Utter :

I never said it was extreme, I said it was way steeper than this:
...
Thus me asking you if it looked like I was doing jump turns.

The line is in Disentis, Switzerland btw.

You are right, Utter, there is no jump turn on this pic.
You had enough space (min.width of line is > 10m) for long turns.
But the pure fact that a freerider on big-mountain skis could ride close to the fall-line
tells me that the slope was not so steep.

RaxSki is different as it can brake even in the fall-line by radical lifting the ski tips.

http://members.aon.at/edvsyste/P5100573_neu.jpg

mholm
389 inlägg
mholm 389 inlägg 8 år sedan

TomFromAustria2011 :

But the pure fact that a freerider on big-mountain skis could ride close to the fall-line
tells me that the slope was not so steep.

Please Tom, tell us what you think is steep!?

precis. Citera
TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

SverigeTomten :

Seriously, these people are mean. I wouldn't mind trying this. Give me a week of testing and a month of training and i can make this product look good.

You are welcome, SverigeTomten!

Well, nobody knows, what will be the performance of a top professional freerider
after few weeks of training on RaxSki.

Do you know Fred Sjörsen who jumped more than 100m vertically? For me he is the best.
We would like to get him for our team but he is otherwise engaged (White Dots and ....)

mholm
389 inlägg
mholm 389 inlägg 8 år sedan

TomFromAustria2011 :

Do you know Fred Sjörsen who jumped more than 100m vertically? For me he is the best.
We would like to get him for our team but he is otherwise engaged (White Dots and ....)

Do YOU know him? Try to google "Fred Sjörsen".








Any results?



Now google "Fred Syversen"...

precis. Citera
Carled
3588 inlägg
Carled 3588 inlägg 8 år sedan

I don't know about all of the members of Freeride (not including you Tom!) but I'd say Utter's line in that picture is pretty badass! It's def. steep, he is going very fast, maybe 80 km/h? (the snowcloud behind seems to be +10m) and he has a quite small and narrow exit point that he has to nail. The only skiers better than Utter are the ones that compete constantly on the highest level (FWT)... You simply can't argue against Utters skiing!

Sure, your skis can ski between stones that are 1m apart in 40km/h, but a real skier would rather ski between rock walls that are 10 meters apart in 80km/h. It is like comparing a unicycle and a Moto GP-bike!

Cause my life is dope and I do dope shit. Citera
AdamClaeson
317 inlägg
AdamClaeson 317 inlägg 8 år sedan

Carled :

I don't know about all of the members of Freeride (not including you Tom!) but I'd say Utter's line in that picture is pretty badass! It's def. steep, he is going very fast, maybe 80 km/h? (the snowcloud behind seems to be +10m) and he has a quite small and narrow exit point that he has to nail. The only skiers better than Utter are the ones that compete constantly on the highest level (FWT)... You simply can't argue against Utters skiing!

Sure, your skis can ski between stones that are 1m apart in 40km/h, but a real skier would rather ski between rock walls that are 10 meters apart in 80km/h. It is like comparing a unicycle and a Moto GP-bike!

True!!!

TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

mholm :

Please Tom, tell us what you think is steep!?

Well, mholm, "steepness" can be measured either in degrees or in the probability that you survive the slope.
With very short RaxSkis you can turn without jumping even on 75° soft snow slope.
But I would not ride that if the slope were 1km vertical.

Really delicious is raxing down steep ice on Americas East Coast. "Blue ocean ice".
While turning at least one fin must cut the ice at any point of time.
That is the main difference to traditional skiing very steep slopes: you never loose the contact to the surface.

TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

Carled :

...Utter's line in that picture is pretty badass! It's def. steep, he is going very fast, maybe 80 km/h? .. You simply can't argue against Utters skiing!

Sure, your skis can ski between stones that are 1m apart in 40km/h, but a real skier would rather ski between rock walls that are 10 meters apart in 80km/h. ...

Well, Carled, believe me that a real skier has sometimes no choice between 10 m and 3m wide passages.
He simply must ride thru them all.

I was not saying Utter would not be an excellent freerider.
But he himself could perform better in certain conditions if he had RaxSkis and few weeks of training.

Nojlas
3047 inlägg
Nojlas 3047 inlägg 8 år sedan

TomFromAustria2011 :

mholm :

Please Tom, tell us what you think is steep!?

Well, mholm, "steepness" can be measured either in degrees or in the probability that you survive the slope.
With very short RaxSkis you can turn without jumping even on 75° soft snow slope.
But I would not ride that if the slope were 1km vertical.

75° slope with soft snow - I thought it was impossible for snow to stay on slopes over like 60-65°?

www.dpsskis.com Citera
TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad TomFromAustria2011 (8 år sedan)

mholm :

Do YOU know him? Try to google "Fred Sjörsen".
Any results?
Now google "Fred Syversen"...

Sorry, my knowledge of Norwegian is poor. I appreciate his modesty and the absolute feeling of balance.
I think he is skiing with brains more than with muscles.

http://members.aon.at/edvsyste/DSC01293.JPG

mholm
389 inlägg
mholm 389 inlägg 8 år sedan

Nojlas :

TomFromAustria2011 :

mholm :

Please Tom, tell us what you think is steep!?

Well, mholm, "steepness" can be measured either in degrees or in the probability that you survive the slope.
With very short RaxSkis you can turn without jumping even on 75° soft snow slope.
But I would not ride that if the slope were 1km vertical.

75° slope with soft snow - I thought it was impossible for snow to stay on slopes over like 60-65°?

Nothing seems to be impossible with a pair of Rax! wink


Well, TomFromAustria2011, We still don't know what you think is steep.

precis. Citera
TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

Nojlas :

75° slope with soft snow - I thought it was impossible for snow to stay on slopes over like 60-65°?

Soft snow = you can carve in it = it is not an ice = but it is not a slush.
You are right that such a slope is not very stable.
It's a fun if you find it somewhere.

TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan

dr-telemark :

...Since all the Rax skiing is done with the weight back ...you seen to have no understanding of basic principles, even in physics....
...And may I be so blunt as to recommend a refresher course in physics?

"all the Rax skiing is done with the weight back.." - we are not so stupid.
Keep to your surgery, dr-telemark !
Your "carving" patients need you badly.

Nojlas
3047 inlägg
Nojlas 3047 inlägg 8 år sedan

TomFromAustria2011 :

Nojlas :

75° slope with soft snow - I thought it was impossible for snow to stay on slopes over like 60-65°?

Soft snow = you can carve in it = it is not an ice = but it is not a slush.
You are right that such a slope is not very stable.
It's a fun if you find it somewhere.

Yeah, but the thing is soft snow can't stay on a slope that steep.
75° means, from my own experiences, solid rock, or solid ice.

www.dpsskis.com Citera
Utter
3104 inlägg
Utter 3104 inlägg 8 år sedan

TomFromAustria2011 :

But the pure fact that a freerider on big-mountain skis could ride close to the fall-line
tells me that the slope was not so steep.

Ever heard of speed? That's what we skiers gain when not having the handbrake on (aka fins in the snow) all the time.

It was steep and my speed was probably around 80-90km/h. You can't tell shit about steepness by seeing me skiing in the fall line. You can always ski in the fall line, it just amounts to different speeds.
And there is no problem slowing down on regular skis in soft snow. The pure amount of surface area on a pair of freeride skis turned diagonally is a way more efficient way of braking than your fins.

Btw, I's say that your sense of steepness is way of. I'd say you could change that degree symbol to a % instead. That would be closer to the thruth in your pictures.

And on another note, did you read the rules of this forum before posting? They are in their full rights to bill you for advertising with you starting this thread.

AdamClaeson
317 inlägg
AdamClaeson 317 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad AdamClaeson (8 år sedan)

Nojlas :

TomFromAustria2011 :

Nojlas :

75° slope with soft snow - I thought it was impossible for snow to stay on slopes over like 60-65°?

Soft snow = you can carve in it = it is not an ice = but it is not a slush.
You are right that such a slope is not very stable.
It's a fun if you find it somewhere.

Yeah, but the thing is soft snow can't stay on a slope that steep.
75° means, from my own experiences, solid rock, or solid ice.

Jepp, and by the way, it would be fun to see a video of someone skiing 75° longer that 20 meters. If so it must be some kind of world record!!!

What Tom dosen't want too realize is that all of us just don't think it's seem to be any fun to ski with Rax. Because the way you ski with Rax. Tom, show me a good video of real freeriding with Rax, not a little boy who jumps out a 1 m cliff in a 20 m slope behind the house... Then, and only then perhaps I can change my approach to Rax.


The snow can settle on steeper slopes than 65°, but no major quantities and it is usually the wind which carried it there which makes it very hard packed and icy. In other words, not very fun to shred... And I don't think it would be with Rax either...

Besides, the 75 ° slope is extremely steep. And where we find even less snow. I wonder how long these 75° slopes Tom and his friends are skiing ... A few meters is not any problem, for exampel a steep corridor. But if you go 50-100 meters +? WOW! Then at least i´m impressed Tom. One mistake and you´re probably screeeeeewed...

dr-telemark
204 inlägg
dr-telemark 204 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad dr-telemark (8 år sedan)

TomFromAustria2011 :

dr-telemark :

...Since all the Rax skiing is done with the weight back ...you seen to have no understanding of basic principles, even in physics....
...And may I be so blunt as to recommend a refresher course in physics?

"all the Rax skiing is done with the weight back.." - we are not so stupid.
Keep to your surgery, dr-telemark !
Your "carving" patients need you badly.

Everything I have written is taken from your posts, your website or quotes from your testers. Don't come whining to me.
And every single picture you posted shows some serious weight on the rear ski.
Since the lower part of your fins is parallell to the base of the skis and the slope, unless you ski with your weight back, they fill no function at all.
You should know that, with that degree of yours.

I think you're just having us all on. Best troll of the whole internet ;-)

dr-telemark Citera
nilshannes2
42 inlägg
nilshannes2 42 inlägg 8 år sedan

@Tom, you havent answered my questions so ill give you one of them again.

Will you join us for the skitests in Åre in december? would be interresting to see your raxskis there.

user93315
626 inlägg
user93315 626 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad I3ea (8 år sedan)

Raxskidan var representerat på ISPO-mässan i år samt förra året, så det var konstigt att Freerideredaktörena hoppade över att rapportera om denna nya design då sånt efterfrågades av freerideprofiler. Tur att Tom startat ett eget reportage om sin skida här för oss som inte hade möjlighet att besöka ISPO-mässan i år smile och där ställa alla frågor som denna produkt ger upphov till.

Det är mycket intressant att följa tråden som åskådare.

centralbyrakraten
1148 inlägg
centralbyrakraten 1148 inlägg 8 år sedan

Vad tror ni om att montera telemarksbindningar på ett par rax? Skulle i och för sig inte bli förvånad om herr Tom lite snabbt lägger upp en bild på ett sånt ekipage inom kort.

www.arelavincenter.se Citera
user93315
626 inlägg
user93315 626 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad I3ea (8 år sedan)

centralbyrakraten :

Vad tror ni om att montera telemarksbindningar på ett par rax? Skulle i och för sig inte bli förvånad om herr Tom lite snabbt lägger upp en bild på ett sånt ekipage inom kort.

Det skulle säkert möjliggöra till att få mer surfkänsla med fenskidorna då man i stort sett kan tuba sig igenom en snötunnel med en telemarksbindning i kombination med raxskidan i och med den position som man med kroppen då kan få till. Detta skulle ju innebära att framtiden är ljus för Telemarken. smile

Har du centralbyråkraten tänkt på hur lavinkurserna i Åre skulle kunna utformas om åkarna använde sig av Raxskidan? Skulle det bli någon skillnad på innehåll jämfört med dem som har längre skidor när det gäller säkerhetstänk?

centralbyrakraten
1148 inlägg
centralbyrakraten 1148 inlägg 8 år sedan

Med tanke på att Raxarna tydligen åker i 75 grader branta sluttningar så kräver det självklart en helt egen lavinkurs, Raxers only, skidåkare göre sig icke besvär!

www.arelavincenter.se Citera
TomFromAustria2011
54 inlägg
TomFromAustria2011 54 inlägg 8 år sedan | Senast ändrad TomFromAustria2011 (8 år sedan)

Nojlas :

TomFromAustria2011 :

Nojlas :

75° slope with soft snow - I thought it was impossible for snow to stay on slopes over like 60-65°?

Soft snow = you can carve in it = it is not an ice = but it is not a slush.
You are right that such a slope is not very stable.
Its a fun if you find it somewhere.

Yeah, but the thing is soft snow can't stay on a slope that steep.
75° means, from my own experiences, solid rock, or solid ice.

Sorry, Nojlas, I do not agree with you in this respect.
A 75° slope is not necessarilly a solid ice or a solid rock.
I am talking about nearly vertical walls that are so soft that you can write in it with your fingers.

Of course, you are right that these formations are not very stable.
I wouldn't sleep at the foot of such wall!

http://members.aon.at/edvsyste/SNV80694_web.jpg

Ace_DG
900 inlägg
Ace_DG 900 inlägg 8 år sedan

Well Tom, it seems no one will convince YOU ...of ...eh, anything!
Troll? I wonder...
Regards,
/Ace DG

...mach 2 ...2.1 sorry Scotty Citera

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